Court skills

[qwerty]

I've noticed that a lot of Computer Forensic employers look for experience in court as being either essential or desirable. Its not something that is really taught unless you study something like Law, and was just wondering how you would make an impression on someone (job interview etc) if you've never actually been to court before? I ask because I will be more than likely looking for a CF job this summer and I have no court skills/experience what so ever.

PS. Wasn't sure where to put this so sorry if its in wrong forum.

[Disklabs]

The reason myself and others ask for courtroom experience is that they dont mind employing ex police, (who are very likely to have courtroom experience), alternatively, try and find a course that teaches this.

Another alternative is to go to an organisation that trains you in these skills. I have just attended a single day course on Courtroom training by Bond Solon. I have to admit, it was excellant, a real eye opener!

A tip for you, and to all students, get yourself signed up for F3, (http://www.f3.org.uk). Its the First Forensic Forum. Its the place to meet up for Forensic practitioners. It also does subsidised training days, which is where I met Bond Solon.

I hope the above helps?

Regards,

Simon

[qwerty]

I was thinking of joining the police and trying to get into computer forensics that way instead of going straight to a company. Even if I was unable to get into the forensics side it would still help me for the future because, as you said, the police often go to court. I've heard of the F3 before and heard that they only accept your membership if you're a reconginised practitioner (or something along those lines).

edit: I think you have to actually be invited to join the website as there is no registration option.

[Disklabs]

QWERTY,

Where are you based?

Simon

[qwerty]

QWERTY,

Where are you based?

Simon

Newcastle Upon Tyne.

[Disklabs]

Qwerty,

I have no contacts in Geordie land, however, I know people in the Mid/North East. I will have a word for you if you want - though I am not promising anything.

Simon

[qwerty]

Qwerty,

I have no contacts in Geordie land, however, I know people in the Mid/North East. I will have a word for you if you want - though I am not promising anything.

Simon

That what be nice, thanks Simon. There is only one CF company in the North East that I'm aware of but they don't ever seem to advertise jobs (they are called Sapphire). I was prepared to relocate for my placement so I'd be willing to relocate if it meant someone was willing to give me a chance.

[Chantelle]

When I have a spare afternoon I pop in and watch a few cases and the local magistrate court. Its really good to get an insight into how it all works. Plus if you visit often the staff get to know you and you may be able to get some references from people high up the court world.
I was also considering becoming a magistrate as that would look nice on the ol CV but ive heard a rumour that if you go into the police profession your not allowed to be a magistrate. :confused: dont quote me.

[onceuponatim]

Currently doing a Comp Forensics Msc and they have a specific module designed around giving evidence in court.
Dont know if the others around have picked up on this but the course leader mentioned it was put in after consultation with the local force

[Disklabs]

Onceuponatim,

Please let us know what university this is as this is exactly what I am trying to promote on this site -a course that has had input from people who practise what happens in the real world, rather than just what lecturers think happens.

As for the court room training, all I can say is that it is really useful. One time in court with no experience or training can make you look an idiot. A bit of training and understanding on the rules of the court makes you look a whole lot more competant.

I recently attended a courtroom training day at New Scotland Yard with a company called Bond Solon (http://www.bondsolon.com). I can say with absolute honesty that the very much abreviated course was a single day of pure enjoyment! I thoroughly enjoyed the course and learnt loads from it. It is something that I would certainly rate as an employer as a very relevant piece of education.

Regards,


Simon

[Invictus]

Qwerty,

I would avoid joining the police with the view of solely getting into computer forensics/investigations side.

Your first two years, despite what people say, are really quite horrible and even before letting you near an investigation revolving around cybercime/computers you will have to be out of probation. Once finished that you will need to spend a few years on the frontline dealing with the roughest part of society. Once you have proven yourself in general policing you will be able to put forward for hitech-crime/ cybercime unit...and even then...even in the Metropolitan Police it is a dead man's shoes job.

Not trying to discourage you but I was thinking along the same lines as you when I joined up and I had to spend 3 years in general CID before being given my first cybercime case. Sad to say but hi-tech crime is not a police priority. Private companies hold pretty much all the expertise in this area.

On a positive I have been to both Crown and MAgistrate's court more times than I can remember both as Officer in Charge (OIC) and support officer.

As opposed to you I am looking to gain technical experience...thinking of doing the encase passport route.

Hope the above helps.

[Disklabs]

Invictus,

Great advice.

I think that its good to hear from someone who has 'been there'.

I think that its also good to hear some truth. There are lots of people out there trying to romanticise this industry.

I do some lecturing for different university's, and I always start off with the line: 'Child pornography?'. Its rude, its harsh, but Ithen go on to explain that its likely that if you get into this industry, its likely that you will come across this type of thing. I feel that when people sign up to this industry, not enough people are told about what they could expect.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Simon

[Invictus]

Simon,

I completely agree with you. I guess there is an element of "romanticising" in every industry but unfortunately it seems to blind people as to what the nitty gritty work will actually involve.

In relation to child pornography for instance, in the police there are units which deal solely with this and the work is often of such disturbing nature that the officers in these units have a 6 month rotation on and off.

And let me tell you that if a police officer needs time off because of the disturbing nature of the work (after all the abuse and nasty things he has seen, experienced and had to deal with in his duties) it means it really is disturbing!

Ciao,

Invictus

[Unreal Numbers]

in response to the court room experiance i guess a good way of getting to grips with it is to go to the public gallery in either the magistrates or crown court. As im doing A-lvl law i have been to them allot :)

also, the not being allowed to be a magistrate if your in the police is very true. Also, if my law knowledge is true, even if close family are in police you cant be a magistrate. Along with many other, millitary ect.

hope this helps and hope my law will help with my CF future.

luke